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Caliber and bullet for elk hunt

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koshkin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/14/2018 at 12:21
Originally posted by urbaneruralite urbaneruralite wrote:

Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Probably because they have more powder in them vs the comparable caliber short case.  Embarrassed

Ha. I set myself up for that. 

No, I mean if loaded the same. I perceive that a light .270 load kicks more than the equivalent .260 load in similar weight rifles. I went through this after my wife rejected a .270 loaded for low recoil in favor of a 7mm08. By the numbers it should be the same. If anything I would think the wider bullet would push back more. There was no arguing it with her. I tried it a couple different ways with different -08 and -06 after that. Those -08s always seemed easier on me. 

Another anomaly is while I prefer short actions, I shoot a long action more accurately. There should be no difference, but I have shown it often enough that I don't take some shots on game with my preferred short action rifles. 

These things are subjective and perhaps not useful to OP, but might be worth considering all the same.

Felt recoil is really impacted by stock shape (drop) and recoil pad size, so keep that in mind when comparing different rifles.

As Jason pointed out, with 270Win it will take a little more powder to get the same weight bullet moving at the same speed, which will also make it a kick a touch more.  That is not a very big difference though.

Stock shape is usually the most important actor between broadly similar cartridges.

I remember, the first time I shot the CZ550 308Win with its hog back stock off the bench, I thought it was a recoil beast.  Upon further analysis, it turned out that the hog back stock is designed for irons and with as scope on and off the bench, it smacks you in the face pretty nicely (works quite well for shooting off hand though). 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/14/2018 at 13:49
Originally posted by urbaneruralite urbaneruralite wrote:

Another anomaly is while I prefer short actions, I shoot a long action more accurately. There should be no difference, but I have shown it often enough that I don't take some shots on game with my preferred short action rifles.


Whatever factor is contributing to this observation, it isn’t related to action length or the cartridges chambered in same. Most likely, the long action rifles you’ve been shooting either happen to have better barrels, better triggers, stocks that fit you better, were shooting loads that were better tuned to the rifles, or some other logical mechanical factors involved. Action length has no bearing whatsoever on either how well a given rifle shoots or how well a person shoots said rifle, and certainly not in favor of the long action. If that were the case, all competitive benchrest shooters - the shooting sport where the utmost inherent precision possible is demanded - would be using long actions and long action cartridges, and they aren’t. The overwhelming majority of them are using short actions and short action rounds such as 6 PPC. You should never draw any conclusions about any rifle’s potential precision based on action length, as there is no correlation to action length.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote urbaneruralite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/14/2018 at 22:48
The point about the powder is a good one. However, you are talking about a grain of three of powder and maybe 100 fps. Those small values would seem to disappear when consider things like faster or slow barrels and a person's perception or build. Maybe not, though, because I agree the /06 class kicks more.

Action length absolutely affects how well you can hit if one suits you better. The mechanical accuracy may be finer with a different rifle, but what works on a bench is not necessarily what works for a particular person from field positions. I don't doubt some people find the opposite of what I do, but for me, if I want to hit the mark I tote a different rifle than just what I like to shoot. 

FWIW, my main hunting rifles are all Browning A-Bolts with the same style stock. I really like my 25 WSSM. It prints bugholes off the bench. I hit my mark better with the same gun in .300WM. Groups from that one are slightly larger.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/15/2018 at 05:19
Originally posted by urbaneruralite urbaneruralite wrote:

Action length absolutely affects how well you can hit if one suits you better. The mechanical accuracy may be finer with a different rifle, but what works on a bench is not necessarily what works for a particular person from field positions.


Not trying to be combative, but no sir; it absolutely has no influence whatsoever. Action length is totally transparent in the system, because all the factors that affect how well you shoot a given rifle platform are the things you are in contact with during the shot - the stock shape/ ergonomics and trigger - along with how good the barrel is, and whether the load is well tuned to the rifle. Weight can play a factor here too, but a particular short action rifle isn’t necessarily lighter than a long action rifle. You are not interacting with the action during the shot, not touching it, and no part of your body is in contact with it or influenced by it in any way while you are taking the shot, so the action length isn’t having any influence in the shot cycle. The only time you are manipulating the action is during the time the bullet has already long ago exited the barrel.

Action length is completely a non-factor in how well you shoot a rifle, because you can get the same length of pull, same center of gravity, same barrel length, same weight, same stock ergonomics, and same trigger designs in short action rifles as long. Whatever you are observing that contribute to how well you shoot with either are related to something else besides that 1” difference in receiver length.

The point about bench shooting is related to inherent precision of the rifle itself. No matter the shooting position, if the rifle itself isn’t mechanically sound and capable of good precision, it can “suit you” and feel right in your hands all day long, but it is going to limit your ability to shoot it well if it doesn’t shoot well to begin with.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Son of Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/18/2018 at 01:05
A 30-06 will do....take a 300 Winchester Magnum if you are spooky....



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lockjaw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/19/2018 at 07:05
Why not get a BAR if you are recoil sensitive? I don't think they are to heavy. 

I have a 700BDL 270 in a Hogue stock, which tames it nicely. The worst kicking gun I ever owned was a Savage 110 in 270. BRUTAL. 

I am shooting 178 ELD-X precision hunter in my 308 this year, see how I like it. When I ran it thru Nikon's spot on program, it looks like it carries the energy downrange nicely. 

When I compare the 270 to the 308, I will take the 308 all day long. I can shoot mine for hours, its a 700 SPS AAC-SD. Same stock as 270. Bed block Hogue. Big fan of that stock for taming recoil, its not the lightest out there though. I think the weights are actually quite similar the 270 may weigh a little more. 

We had a guy shoot a doe at my hunting club a few years ago with a 338 Win Mag. We never found it. We found hair and a good blood trail, but no deer. 

So it just goes to show you... he swapped it for a 30-06. 

If you want a soft shooter, the 7-08 would be the way to go. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billyburl2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/02/2020 at 15:54
IMHO, the biggest factor in hunting any game, bullet placement is going to put meat in the freezer. Being comfortable with YOUR ABILITY, takes practice. No matter what caliber, what bullet, if you put a whole through their heart or through their head, they die. 
If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peddler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/02/2020 at 17:21
Originally posted by billyburl2 billyburl2 wrote:

IMHO, the biggest factor in hunting any game, bullet placement is going to put meat in the freezer. Being comfortable with YOUR ABILITY, takes practice. No matter what caliber, what bullet, if you put a whole through their heart or through their head, they die. 

Amen 💥.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2020 at 19:40
If you have shoulder problems the question is not so much what is the largest caliber you guys use to shoot critters the question is what can I use that will reliably work without causing myself further damage.  Asked that way I suggest you consider 7mm08  I think .243 is a tad light but if you have one of those matched with a deep penetrating bullet like a Barnes  hollow-point you can very realistically hunt them with that.  Distance to target is a huge factor but around 200 yds I think the 7mm08 will do a fine job for you. The alternative is to select a semi auto version of a heavier caliber but weight becomes an issue with some of those. I'd look real hard at a Tikka every one of them I have shot has been quite accurate right out of the box. Browning makes a BAR in several calibers including the 7mm08, &  30-06 etc


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - January/03/2020 at 19:52

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2020 at 09:49
I always enjoy starting a thread, cataloging a few things I think need to be said, then running smack into a post I made over a year ago, saying almost exactly what I think today is relevant.

I do love the old thread resurrections, keep'em coming.

On another note, I trophy hunted this year - for the first time in many years - without the 300WinMag. My objective was to spend more time stalking, and to not go as big as I went last year (my white tail scored right around 183, gross); however, this year, I got on a 192 that was almost perfectly symmetric, tall tines, a dream of a deer, and he all but ran right to me for shooting. And, of course, all this happened when I had nothing but a lowly 308 gas gun (16" barrel, more set up for varmint, I but I had a mag of 168 TAP along for just these instances.) The deer dropped on the spot with a perfect exploding front shoulder shot.
In all truth, I was reluctant to pull the trigger on a trophy without the winmag; but confidence, confidence, confidence. The gun in hand had ranges cards for both rounds, from 25 yards to 500.

There is much wisdom in the "pick the bullet first" conversation. After that, practice, practice, practice!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2020 at 09:54
And for the sayers of nay, here he is before taking his dirt nap.

It was about this distance and time that something spooked him from behind and he ran straight at me, stopping at about 30 yards when I grunted to stop his advance.

He'll be on the wall in a few months.



Why the photo upload went in sideways, I do not know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dogger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2020 at 10:45
VERY nice deer RC.

I wouldn’t worry too much about the capabilities of a .308 especially at the range you mentioned!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Son of Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2020 at 11:35
A 30-30 will drop a deer dead in his tracks up to 200 yards....I only had one deer run after she was heart-shot....and dropped within 50 yards.....so all of the BIG guns will certainly do the job....

Everything I ever shot with a 270 dropped where they stood.  Everything I ever shot with a 300 Winchester dropped in their tracks.  But, yes, you do have to hit them right. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2020 at 11:42
Yes VERY nice deer RC!!

Congrats!

Shorter ranges allow smaller calibers with good shot placement.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peddler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2020 at 15:21
Nice buck! Very nice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2020 at 16:12
Wow, that’s a really nice buck!

A 183” and 192” in successive years?!!! I’ve been hunting for 46 years and have never seen a whitetail buck close to that except on high fenced game ranches. Are you hunting on a high fenced ranch? If not, you’ve found one hell of a deer nirvana!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tahqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2020 at 16:57
Damn RC! Outstanding
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scrumbag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/05/2020 at 08:44
Great Deer RC!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/05/2020 at 09:25
High fence game ranch.

When not managed, the biggest I have seen is about 170.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/05/2020 at 10:52
The largest native, free-ranging TX whitetail I’ve ever seen live on the hoof would probably go mid-150s or so. He still haunts me some 20 years later, as he suddenly hopped behind some brush as I was flicking off the safety and I never saw him again.
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